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Friday, July 30, 2004 - 6:27amSanction this postReply
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Ed, a very thought-provoking article, and thanks, of course, for the mention.  My own thoughts on the need for multidimensional change have been influenced by many thinkers, especially, of course, Ayn Rand.  I reconstructed her analysis of social problems as a tri-level model, in both Ayn Rand: The Russian Radical and Total Freedom: Toward a Dialectical Libertarianism, and I argue that the model came to maturity in Rand's magnum opus, Atlas Shrugged.

I should mention of course that Ed is editing what promises to be a superb anthology, featuring essays on Atlas.  My own contribution to the anthology, "Atlas Shrugged:  Manifesto for a New Radicalism," is a distillation of the tri-level model, which enables us not only to analyze social problems, but to propose those solutions that constitute radical social change.




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Post 1

Friday, July 30, 2004 - 8:34amSanction this postReply
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Hi Chris:

Thanks Chris for your good words about this essay and for the plug for the forthcoming collection of essays , Atlas Shrugged: Ayn Rand's Philosophical and Literary Masterpiece.

In conjunction with the ideas you expressed so well in Total Freedom, I was thinking that Atlas Shrugged may require a really long sequel. The heroes are returning to the world but they still have a lot of work ahead of them!!! Look at all the interacting levels that real cultural, behavioral, and attitudinal change depend upon.

It would be great if a talented budding Objectivist novelist/philosopher could write such a follow-up novel. I really would like to see all the steps and actions required to develop and sustain a truly free society!!!

Ed




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Friday, July 30, 2004 - 12:15pmSanction this postReply
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Bravo Ed!!

One question: do you ever have the problem of the people you try to "evangelise" to simply refusing to listen? I'm always very enthusiastic about debating ideas, with a view to bringing people round to my way of thinking...but a lot of people just don't want to know.

MH




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Post 3

Friday, July 30, 2004 - 12:28pmSanction this postReply
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Ed, Chris, Matthew,

It was a fine article, Ed, and yo presented the case of what I call "evangelical Objectivism," very well.

I think a realistic analysis of the case will not be quite as optimistic as yours, however. So some comments on what you said:

We need to convince a sufficient number of people of the rightness of our ideas.
 
The first question is, who is, "we?" I will come back to that. The second question is, what is, "a sufficient number of people?" Why do you think it possible to convince that many people? 

We must fight apathy and affection for the state.
 
Here is "we" again, whoever "we" are. The fact is, most people want to be apathetic and want to love the state. They don't what to have to worry about how the government works, or who's running it. They just want to go to their job, get through it, doing as little work as possible, come home to a well prepared meal, probably play with the kids a little, and then settle down to be entertained for the evening by TV, so long as that entertainment is not too challenging. You're going to convince all those people that being responsible for their own lives, planning their own future and retirement, planning for and paying their own medical bills, making sure the food they buy and the drugs they use are safe and good, is better than the soft life they enjoy, letting the government take care of all that other stuff for them. Good luck!

a free society will not exist unless a sufficient number of people believe in a free society
 
Most of the people in the United States believe they are free. If you begin to point out to them all the things in their lives the government controls and all the ways they are tyranized and oppressed they tell you, "if you don't like it, go to some country that has more freedom." Most Americans will tell you this is the freest country in the world. Of course they are right about the comparison, but being a slave on half the time is still being a slave. Most people just do not mind it.

Our goal of a durable free society is realistic and could be achieved if enough people supported the freedom philosophy.

So, we are back to my original question, "how many poeple is enough?" Is it half the population? (If not that many, how will less get the job done. They are always going to be outvoted by those who favor big government.)

No one yet has provided a convincing description of  how a society can be changed by the methods you outlined, except when the message is, like socialism or religion, a promise of prosperity or benefit that is unearned. Objectivism works under a great handicap. It cannot afford to make empty promises or lie. It has to say, right up front, life is hard, but all the rewards are for those willing to do the work. Most people do not want "hard," they want "easy," gurantees, and security. That is what religion and collectivist political systems promise. Objectivism has nothing to offer those people. If you have wondered why so many people seem to ignore the obvious truths when you explain them, that is why. They don't want truth, they want free medical care and the assurance, how ever stupidly they live their lives, they will be taken care of in their old age.

Now who is "we?" When you say, we have to do this, and we ought to do that, just who are these people who have these obligation to convert the world. I live by objective principles, and I can find a way to live by them in any society. My purpose in life is not to make society a good one, my purpose in life is to enjoy my life; in fact that is the purpose of everyone's life.

Now Chris, you said, "... which enables us not only to analyze social problems, but to propose those solutions that constitute radical social change...." There are no, "social problems," there are only individual problems. If everybody would quit worrying about everyone else's problems and solve their own, there would be no social problems. The worst nightmares ever thrust on this world have been done so by people instituting radical social change to solve social problems.

Notice, when Ayn Rand could have invented any method she liked to make society a good one, the only plausible solution she could find was to vacate society, let it collapse from its own rot, and make it on one's own.

(I did not see Mr. Humphrey's post 'til I was through writing this, but he does point out one of the same points I made. Most people do not want to know the truth.)

Regi 





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Friday, July 30, 2004 - 1:56pmSanction this postReply
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I agree with Mr. Firehammer's rather pessimistic view of human nature and the modern American mindset.  So I have a different "spin" on the manner in which to direct the optimistic energy of Mr. Younkins' article.

Books like Stephen Covey's The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People sell very well and have much in common with Objectivism -- themes like self-responsibility, goal-setting, defining and achieving one's own highest values and personal mission, etc.  Organizations like the public speaking guild of Toastmasters International that aim to create a supportive atmosphere of self-growth have also proven themselves quite capable of drawing large numbers of enthusiastic participants.  Finally, Harry Browne's book How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World, while neither a best-seller nor completely in line with Objectivism, correctly states that a person can live his own life his own way by learning to bypass many widely accepted intellectual, emotional, social and political barriers.  Many of the "chains of slavery" exist, not "out there", but within the very spirit of the average American.

My own experience with Objectivism has taught me that doing the hard "inner work" to discover and to achieve my "Authentic Self" supplies many more personal rewards than the exasperating attempt to "evangelize" and "convert the masses".  In fact, I contend that a more effective approach would adopt an attitude that says, in effect, "Some of us have ventured on a great journey.  We invite you to join us if you prove yourself worthy."  Sales people call this "creating a need".  They bring to the attention of the prospect a desirable value and then elevate its desirability within the existing value structure of that prospect.

Having led an Objectivist Club here in Florida since 1999, I can say without hesitation that I have gained great values from the face-to-face interactions that I could not gain through other venues like Internet chat rooms.  My lessons learned led me to accept the position of SOLO Club Coordinator.  My aspirations drive me to propose a Club discussion format focusing on helping Club members to understand themselves, discover their own unique and deeply inspirational values, and achieve those values through the Objectivist ethics of Self-Esteem, Reason and Purpose.  I intend to write a full treatment of this proposal in the near future.  Suffice it to say that Hyrum Smith, co-founder of the Franklin Covey Company, strongly influenced my thinking.  His work, in turn, drew its inspiration from Benjamin Franklin and Nathaniel Branden, and we all know from whom Branden got his major influence.

In the mean time, to give you a taste of what I have in mind, read my personal Values List and the SOLO Florida home page.



Post 5

Friday, July 30, 2004 - 2:51pmSanction this postReply
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a good article -but - aren't you actually 'preaching to the choir?'

as for the sequel... well, there is one being written [blush, blush] , and covering all of those wanted answers... but it is taking quite longer to do than originally expected, and continually being interrupted by other projects from time to time...

theme/title, in case interested is 'metatropolis'... and covers floating lib island, and one in space...

and, it seems, is time i get back to working on it, getting the last third in shape...




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Post 6

Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 6:33amSanction this postReply
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Regi, you wrote, in reply to my comments:

Chris, you said, "... which enables us not only to analyze social problems, but to propose those solutions that constitute radical social change...." There are no, "social problems," there are only individual problems. If everybody would quit worrying about everyone else's problems and solve their own, there would be no social problems. The worst nightmares ever thrust on this world have been done so by people instituting radical social change to solve social problems.


All I can suggest is to read or re-read Part 3 of Ayn Rand: The Russian Radical, which documents precisely how Rand herself understood, analyzed, and proposed to resolve a great mass of "social" problems.  I am not suggesting that "social" problems are problems of some kind of ineffable organism called "society."  No such organism exists.  Yes, of course, all social problems are constituted by the relations of real, existing, concrete human beings who live in a particular time and place.  But the inescapable relations among human beings in society create all sorts of social issues and problems, including such things as war, racism, inflation, depression, and so forth.  Oh how wonderful it would be if focusing on only the personal level people could resolve all sorts of problems; that is not likely to happen, however.  Not when people exercise power through political and other institutions that profoundly affect the lives of others.  (And these institutions and organizations are also constituted by the relations of individual men and women.)




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Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 10:18amSanction this postReply
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Matt:

Thanks for your good words. I agree that we can't force people to listen. As I mentioned, we should approach others with a good will. If they don't want to hear our arguments, we should accept their choice and not become antagonistic with them.

Regi:

Thanks for your always perceptive insights!!!

I don't think I am writing as an "Evangelical Objectivist." At least I did not mean to give that impression.. When I say "we" I mean any of us who favor a free society including those who want to be labeled as Objectivists, Austrians, proponents of the Public Choice or Chicago Schools, Judeo-Christian Economic Personalists, etc., etc., and those of us who don't care about labels but do care about the truth. I simply am speaking to any or all people who support what we can generally call the "freedom philosophy" or the "philosophy of freedom".

And. of course, we do not have an unchosen obligation to change the world. Some of us find our personal flourishing in spreading the word and I certainly see nothing wrong with that. I know I simply enjoy thinking, writing, and sharing my ideas on a free society with others and I hope that I reach some people who find they agree with these ideas.

Luther:

I  have read your personal values list and it is excellent!!!! Also, I am a big fan of Covey's Seven Habits book.

Am I too optimistic as you and Regi say? Perhaps, but remember I am talking about an incremental approach to establishing a freer society. Also, as long as people have rationality and free will there is hope!!! It may be very very difficult but difficult does not mean impossible!!!!

:)

Cheers!!!!

Ed




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Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 10:34amSanction this postReply
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Robert:

I look forward to reading your novel when it is completed!

When you say you are writing a sequel to Atlas Shrugged do you really mean one where the characters John Galt, Dagny, Rearden, Francisco, etc., go back to the world, save Eddie Willers, and then build and sustain a free society?

If so, I believe there are copyright laws that may stop such an endeavor.

In 1957 the copyright laws gave copyright protection for 28 years with the possible renewal for another 28 years. Of course, current law provides for protection for a period of the life of  the author plus 50 years.

In 1985. Peikoff et.al. received a renewal of the copyright for Atlas Shrugged.
 
I know that Nicholas Meyer was able to write novels about Sherlock Holmes but Doyle's work has long been in the public domain.

Atlas Shrugged will not be in the public domain for quite a while yet.

Best of luck on your writing!!!

Ed




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Post 9

Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 10:37amSanction this postReply
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Ed, you wrote: " I was thinking that Atlas Shrugged may require a really long sequel... It would be great if a talented budding Objectivist novelist/philosopher could write such a follow-up novel."

Please, I beg you, don't even think such a thing! A "budding" novelist-philosopher? Do you realize how utterly horrible that could be? And Rand would come down to get the writer. Besides, and seriously, no one has the moral right to use for their own purposes characters devised by someone else.

Barbara



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Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 1:02pmSanction this postReply
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Barbara,

Just a question about geography. You said, "And Rand would come down to get the writer." I thought she would come "up" to get the writer. Of course, you would know her preferences better than I. I was thinking of what Mark Twain said, "Heaven for climate, Hell for society." It seems to me she'd be more interested in people than the weather.

Regi




Post 11

Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 1:09pmSanction this postReply
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Luther,

I agree the freedom, if we are to have it in this life, is going to have to be acquired by our own effort--certainly no one else is any any anguish over whether we are free or not.

Harry Browne's book is a bit odd, but he definitely understands what freedom is, and makes some excellent points for anyone who really wants to be free. (I was always greatly disappointed he failed to write his promised book, Why People Hate Opera. Maybe he wrote it and no one would publish it.

I appreciate all your comments, by the way. You seem to have an excellent handle on what I call "practical objectivism."

Regi




Post 12

Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 1:28pmSanction this postReply
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Hi Chris,

You're just too nice a guy. You really think your going to help out the helpless, when they are really beyond help. You think people will make it if we just give them a hand, but all they really want is a hand-out.

The problem is, Chris, all social problems are the result of the material out of which societies are constructed. The only way to solve "social" problems is to rid society of all the ignorant, second-handers, parasites, and panderers (politicians and lawyers, for example).

If you and I lived in a society comprised of people all with the values of most of those who post on SOLO, for example, there would be no "social" problems such as the ones you named, war, racism, inflation, depression, and so forth. So long as society is comprised of people who are mostly superstitious, ignorant, short-sighted, dishonest, unambitious, looking for luck or the government to make them happy, there is no solution.

I do not intend to discourage those who think they are going to change people or society. If they should happen to succeed, I will be both happy and surprised. Good luck, just don't waste your whole life on it.

(And by the way, do not be misled by the fact there are now more people interested in Ayn Rand. For one thing, there are just more people. For another, the places where she is having an influence are not, in the long run, going to make a difference anytime soon, and those gains are offset by the huge loses of freedom we are "enjoying," in this country and influx of people who will never have an interest in Ayn Rand. There are now more people living on the wealth confiscated from the producers than there are producers. Its too late. You will never get them to give up their loot.)

Regi 





Post 13

Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 1:38pmSanction this postReply
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Ed,

I don't think I am writing as an "Evangelical Objectivist."

Sure you were. I did not mean it censoriously, only as a description. There is nothing wrong with being enthusiastic and promoting what you believe in, and certainly nothing wrong with it, if you enjoy it.

I honestly do not think it is going to work in the sense that it will have any real difference on where society is headed; but it certainly could be effective in making some individuals see the light and discovering what living a free objective life is. Good for them and good for you if it does.

I was serious when I said I liked the article. I would be glad to post it on The Autonomist and promote if you like.

Regi




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Post 14

Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 3:20pmSanction this postReply
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Regi, I think you misunderstand.  I don't believe that fundamental social change is possible only if you "help" out misguided people.  My point is that there are institutional issues that are at work in understanding the dynamics of things like the boom-bust cycle and all the other issues that plague our society.  Rand simply asked us to take into account the full context of forces at work:  personal (psycho-epistemological and ethical), cultural (educational, pedagogical, linguistic, ideological, aesthetic), and structural (political and economic).  Radical social change requires changes on many different levels simultaneously, since each of these levels reciprocally reinforces the others.  Fundamentally, it will entail a change of philosophy.  But it won't require convincing everybody. 

It will require a change in the dominant trends across the board.  The "parasites," "moochers," and "looters" will always be with us; there may come a time, however, when they will be denied any institutional means by which to engage in their war on productive human beings.  We can't possibly get there without a full-bodied and comprehensive analysis of those institutional means.  That's one of the things Ayn Rand offered us, and I think it is one of her most powerful legacies.




Post 15

Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 6:57pmSanction this postReply
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Hi Chris,

I hate to argue with you. I enjoy arguing with someone I can insult in every other word, but you make that impossible. In the first place, I couldn't get away with it, and in second place your too dang decent.

Oh well, I'll have to try to muddle through with plain old reason, I suppose.

Regi, I think you misunderstand.
 
Possibly, it wouldn't be the first time.

My point is that there are institutional issues that are at work in understanding the dynamics of things like the boom-bust cycle and all the other issues that plague our society.
 
Of course I may just be misunderstanding again, but is that "institution," by any chance the government, or, even such things that it controls, e.g. the stock market? If its not that, I have no idea what you mean. (I don't think you mean the Boy Scouts or the Churches.)

Radical social change requires changes on many different levels simultaneously, since each of these levels reciprocally reinforces the others.  Fundamentally, it will entail a change of philosophy. 

Well, here I go misunderstanding again. What exactly does the expression, "radical social change...on man different levels simultaneously," mean? What sort of changes are "social" changes? And what does, "different levels" mean? (Chris, I know I am only misunderstanding so you'll understand why these things seem like a bunch of floating abstractions to me.)

But it won't require convincing everybody.
 
Given our present system and situation, if less than half the people are convinced, just how are all these, "radical social changes," going to be implemented, and by whom? So, how many people need to be convinced, and how will convincing them bring about all these wonderful changes?

It will require a change in the dominant trends across the board.  The "parasites," "moochers," and "looters" will always be with us; there may come a time, however, when they will be denied any institutional means by which to engage in their war on productive human beings.  We can't possibly get there without a full-bodied and comprehensive analysis of those institutional means.
 
Since I do not know what the "institution" is you are referring to, I do not really understand this either.

That's one of the things Ayn Rand offered us, and I think it is one of her most powerful legacies.
 
I think I have read most everything Ayn Rand has written, still I missed the part where she talked about, "full-bodied and comprehensive analysis of ... institutional means." Of course she talked about government, and called it that, and said it had no other purpose than to protect individuals from coercive force by other individual or groups of individuals, foreign or domestic. If within that context there are "social problems," that aren't solved, tough. It's not the business of anyone to solve them, we'll just have to learn to live with them, or solve them ourselves.

Now I want to make one criticism. An awful lot of what you have said are generalities. You said, "Rand simply asked us to take into account the full context of forces at work:  personal (psycho-epistemological and ethical), cultural (educational, pedagogical, linguistic, ideological, aesthetic), and structural (political and economic)."

But, of course Rand never asked that. She insisted context not be dropped, but that is not at all the same thing you said. She would never have said that, and in fact would have detested such a string of generalities as "forces at work," without specifying how they are forces and what is forced by them, or "educational" (what kind, public or private) "pedagogical" (redundant to educational) "linguistic" (specific ones, syntax, grammar, different kinds, human or machine, what?) "ideological" (the whole universe of ideologies, or some particular one, or some aspect of ideologies in particular, what?) "aesthetic" (beauty, art, theory, practice, what?) "political" (the present government, political theory, practical politics, what?) "economic" (economics theory, the state of the present economy, or capitalism vs, some form of collectivism, or what?).

There is no dictator in the world that would not find that list of "necessary contextual issues" to their liking. That is exactly how they have put over their programs, emphasizing their solution to these generalities, psychology, ethics, education, language, ideology, art, politics and economics. Unless you mean a specific kind of psychology, ethics, education, language, ideology, art (aesthetics) political system or economic system, it would be better to throw the list out, and stick to something specific.

Ayn Rand wrote the following in a letter to Leonard Read, founder and later president of the pro-capitalist "Foundation for Economic Education," publishers of The Freeman, November 12, 1944

"Just ask yourself what earthly purpose can be accomplished by spending money, effort and paper to tell men that "The ground of liberty must be gained by inches"? ... Standing by itself, such a sentence means nothing, says nothing, solves nothing. It is a generality, of no value unless the specific steps or inches are named. Anybody could subscribe to that sentence—and I mean anybody: Ickes, Roosevelt, Stalin or Hitler."

The same goes for your list of generalities. It is useless and meaningless unless a specific view of human psychology is meant, a single ethical system, a definite theory of education, particular principles of language, a definite ideology and theory of aesthetics.

This tendency to generalities has a name coined by my wife. She calls it accute academiosis. A tendency to generalities is only one of the symptoms.

Regi




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Post 16

Sunday, August 1, 2004 - 9:07amSanction this postReply
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Regi, out of politeness to Ed, I don't really want to hijack (I know you like that word :) ) this whole thread with a distillation of one of my central theses from Part 3 of Russian Radical, which devotes nearly 100 pages to this subject.  In that part, I address these issues in much greater concrete detail; there's only so much that one can do in these forums without posting a whole book in response.
 
Nonetheless, I don't want to be impolite to you, by offering no answer whatsoever, so let me recommend either that you go back to Russian Radical, or chapter 9 of Total Freedom, or take a look at a few essays at my site (where you can do a word search for "tri-level"), such as "Are We All Dialecticians Now?
 
The "changes" on the different levels of which I speak are changes in terms of the personal, the cultural, and the structural, that is changes that will be brought about by "checking the premises" at work on these various levels. Rand recognized this when she said:  "Intellectual freedom cannot exist without political freedom; political freedom cannot exist without economic freedom; a free mind and a free market are corollaries." Rand rejected the efforts of libertarians who would merely focus on the political to the detriment of other levels; merely getting rid of state intervention is not the goal of Objectivism. Rand meant a full-bodied revolution---checking the premises of institutions, traditions, and customs across politics, economics, culture, and ethical practices.
 
"Education" refers to educational institutions (this includes Rand's critique of the premises upon which "public education" is based); "pedagogical" is not redundant to "education"--it refers to the methods used in educating (something that Rand discussed at length in her critique of Progressive methods; see "The Comprachicos"); "linguistic" refers to the ways in which human beings use language to obscure their underlying motives (see Rand's critique of "anti-concepts"), "ideological" refers to checking the premises of specific ideological doctrines, like, for example, the ways in which people use "altruism" as synonymous with "benevolence," while trying to cover up the fact that the sacrifices demanded are a way of consolidating their power over others; "aesthetic" and "cultural" refer to the ways in which various aesthetic practices (nonrepresentational art) and cultural norms (the worship of tradition) aim to subvert human cognitive efficacy; "political" refers to checking the premises of government policies, both foreign and domestic, and understanding the dynamics at work in the "mixed" economy; "economic" refers both to the economic theories at work that justify government intervention, as well as the economic preconditions and effects of government intervention.  All of this is discussed at length in very concrete terms in my book on Rand.  The whole point of discussing all these levels is that Rand's revolution is one in which changes on one level will be mutually supportive of changes on the other levels; you can't hope to get rid of state intervention in the long-run if the society is still wedded to anti-rational, altruistic, and collectivist premises in every other area of life.

So, I really don't suffer from "accute academiosis," but there's only so much that one can say in a post on somebody else's thread.  :)
 
Cheers!




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Post 17

Sunday, August 1, 2004 - 12:10pmSanction this postReply
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Hi Barbara:

Thank you for your post!

I really do not expect to see a true sequel for Atlas Shrugged, the finest novel ever written.  I will admit, however, that when I reached the last page the first time I read Atlas Shrugged, I wanted to read more. I still would like to read more. I wanted , in a sense, to live longer with these great characters. I wanted to see all of the steps involved in forging and maintaining a free society. Even after the Strike, Galt's speech and so on, I anticipated that there would still be conflicts and resistance. In addition, as time passes, new individuals are born and need to learn about the appropriateness of a free society for rational men with free will in a limited world. The battle to establish and maintain a free society is definitely multidimensional and continuing, taking place on a variety of levels with each level affecting and having reciprocal effects on the other levels.

I apologize to you and to Ayn Rand for even hinting that such a sequel could be or should be written by someone other than Ayn Rand herself! I don't want her to reach down  (Regi says up) to get me!!!  :)

Of course, someone could attempt an unrelated novel (or treatise for that matter)  illustrating an incremental, multi-level approach to establishing a free society. Such a huge book would illustrate the dynamic relationships between the philosophical, psychological,  personal, political, cultural, ethical, historical, economic, etc. Maybe Regi and Chris could team up to do this!? :)

Cheers!!!!!

Ed




Post 18

Sunday, August 1, 2004 - 12:12pmSanction this postReply
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Regi:

I am pleased that you like my essay.

I would be honored if you would reprint it in your journals.

Take care.

Ed




Post 19

Sunday, August 1, 2004 - 6:47pmSanction this postReply
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Chris,

Regi, out of politeness to Ed, I don't really want to hijack ... this whole thread ... Nonetheless, I don't want to be impolite to you ...
 
The first time you are ever discourteous to anyone, it will certainly shock me; and, I happen to appreciate that very much. (I mean in others, I am not always so careful, myself, you might have noticed.)

I hope you will not think it a discourtesy on my part if I do not respond to your every point. I honestly do not think you arguments address my disagreement, but that is probably because I have not made my disagreement clear enough. This is, as you suggest, not the place to resolve these particular differences.

I think the major difference between our views is that I am a radical individualist. I do not believe there are any collective solutions to anything. By collective, I mean anything that requires cooperation, in any form, that would not be what of every individual involved would choose to do on their own. If a "solution" means some people "must" agree to something, it's not a solution.

I do not expect you to agree with that. I am pointing it out only because it might explain why I do not agree with you. Oh, that and the fact that I have no faith at all in the notion you can improve or change people by educating them. Even if you could force knowledge into people, they way you do a vaccine, it would make no essential difference in them. A person cannot become a forger until you teach him how to write. 

So, I really don't suffer from "accute academiosis," ...

I'll take your word for it; but, I must warn you, those who are infected by this disease frequently deny it. ;>)

Regi




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